A few reminders:
1.) Analyze, not summarize. You must have something to say! Make a point--stick your neck out! Say something new and original...
2.) Develop develop develop. I am looking for depth in one topic, not breadth, so don't try to discuss everything--go into depth about one thing and explore it as fully as you can!
3.) Where appropriate, respond to and build on your classmates' postings. Your posting should not occur in isolation--this forum is meant to facilitate discussion outside of the classroom, so be sure to read the entries posted before yours and check the discussion board before class to read the entries posted after yours.
4.) Proofread your posting before you post it--I will be grading diction, syntax, and grammatical elements the same way I do papers. The tone can be conversational, but that doesn't mean that the writing can be sloppy.
5.) Include at least direct quotation from the text to support your argument. Don't forget to cite.
6.) Minimum length (unless otherwise noted): at least 8 well-developed sentences.
TEACH US SOMETHING ABOUT THE TOPIC! HAVE FUN WITH THIS! Practice analyzing.
On page: 32, there is a passage that is about wine that has spilled to the ground and the French people are doing everything to get some of it. I see this as a chaotic, maybe, warlike scene. Then there is a man that writes blood on a wall by using mud and wine. The way blood is writen makes it emphasised. It is forshadowing the future French Revolution, where blood is spilled, like the wine is spilled.
ReplyDeleteHow can Lucie just immediately say she and her father can start their lives over together? She doesn't know this man. All she knows is that he has been in prison her entire life. Just because he was married to her mother and she is biologically his daughter that doesn't mean he is her father. I know that he technically is her dad but he hasn't been there at all. What makes him her dad is the experiences they have, not just the fact that they are related by blood. Jarvis came to her and said that a man she believed was dead her whole life is and alive and her father. So she has just excepted a complete stranger into her life.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Grace.In chapter four I think that Lucie Manette is blinded by the fact that she is not an orphan anymore, which would imply this fairytale ending. The reality of this,however,is she's believing a man she has known for less than a day who is telling her that her father is alive and she must come with him to get him out of prison. First of all she doesn't consider why her father is in prison and perhaps he is dangerous or is her father really dead and this is a scam. Second of all she has no idea where they are going and when they will return. Finally, she is already emotionally unstable and immature (from when she passed out), so how is she going to react when she sees her supposedly "dead father". She is so naive that she doesn't even consider these crucial factors and how is this going to effect her future decisions in the book.
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ReplyDeleteThe motif of light and dark is symbolically used many times in the first book of A Tale of Two Cities. Dickens first uses this motif when setting up the place and time in which the story is taking place. On page eight, Dickens sets up the scene of the book by stating, "There was a steaming mist in the hollows, and it had roamed in its forlornness up the hill, like an evil spirit, seeking rest and finding none," providing feelings of sadness, loneliness, and also death through using the words forlornness and evil. These three feelings represent dark times in a place or life. Also, on page 22, the author describes an apartment as being "a large, dark room, furnished in a funereal manner with black horsehair, and loaded with heavy dark tables." Once again, on page 23, words such as black, negro, grave are used over four times. All of these words have negative and dark connotations, setting up the tone of the book to be mysterious, and also may be foreshadowing death and other evil events. However, there is at least one representation of light and hope in the first book. On page 37, Dickens begins describing the staircase of the attic that they are about to enter as "gloomy "and Monsieur Defarge as a "secret, angry, dangerous man." Hope is provided though on page 42 when they enter into the attic and Monsieur Defarge asks if he can let some light into the room. This simple action represents letting light into the life of Dr. Manette who has been trapped in dark solitary confinement for awhile. Dr. Manette's eyes are also described as "exceedingly bright" which also could demonstrate a symbol of light in the first book (Dickens 42). At the end of chapter six, a description is used that describes lamps as "ever brighter in the better streets" which again could foreshadow light and hope (Dickens 52).
ReplyDeleteWhat conditions in France possibly led to the French Revolution? We see in these first six chapters that the people of both France and London do not trust each other. The Dover mail passengers were said to all suspect each other, “… the guard suspected the passengers, the passengers suspected one another and the guard, they all suspected everybody else…” (Dickens 9). They hardly made conversation throughout their journey and without this trust, the countries cannot function as a whole. On page six, Dickens develops on the symbols of the Woodman, symbolizing Fate, and the Farmer, which symbolizes Death. He explains how the unfair and torturous death of a youth, who failed to kneel down to passing monks, was possibly predetermined by the Woodman. In saying this, he explains that France’s fate was to fail, to ultimately be corrupt. Also, he mentions that the Farmer had set apart his tumbrils for the Revolution ahead of time. Tumbrils were used to convey condemned prisoners to the guillotine during the French Revolution. With the Farmer having already chosen its tumbrils we know that death will be inevitable. Dickens uses the partnership of these symbols to emphasize the cruel decline of France and the circumstances that powered the Revolution.
ReplyDeleteOn page 47 it talks about the "blackened string with a scrap of folded rag attached to it" that was on Lucie's father's neck. This is a symbol of the previous love for his wief and continuing love for her. The hair was Lucie's mother's and he has always kept it because of the known fact that he had a child somewhere in the world. When Lucie came into the attic and he made the connection that she was his daughter he told the story of the last time that he saw her mother by saying, "She had laid her head upon my shoulder, that night when I was summoned out - she had a fear of my going, though I had none - and when I was brought to the North Tower they found these upon my sleeve. "You will leave me them? They can never help me to escape in the body, though they may in the spirit." Those were the words I said. I remember them very well," (Dickens 47). Showing that he remembered this memory very well was significant because in previous moments he had referred to his name being "One Hundred and Five, North Tower" and had asked multiple times "What did you say?"(Dickens 44, 43). At first Dr. Manette thought that Lucie was a ghost of his wife, so this could foreshadow that the rest of the book could resemble how he would have lived his life if he hadn't made those bad decisions. It could also represent how he would have treated his wife if he had gotten a second chance. Maybe he start with Lucie where he left off with his wife.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Grace and Hallie Belle. No one knows why Dr. Manette was in jail, so no one technically knows if he is dangerous or not. If he is dangerous, why would he be able to get released from prison? Also, why would Lorry lie to Lucie since he knows what all she has been through? Lorry has been around this family for a long time and knows all about them, so why would he put a 17 year old child who already does not think that she has parents through something that big? Lucie shows us that she puts her faith in Lorry by believing him that her dad is still alive. She also shows us that by actually going to get her father with Lorry. He is still her dad even though he has not been able to take care of her for the past 17 years. How was he supposed to take care of her from jail? He probably did not want his "little girl" coming to visit him in a jail cell. I would not want to go visit my father, as a child, if he was in jail. She obviously wants a relationship with him, or she would not have gone all that way with Lorry to pick him up. So, just because he has not been there for Lucie does not mean that he cannot be there for her now. They obviously both want to start fresh and I think that is a good thing for both of them!
ReplyDeleteThroughout the first book, there has been a continuous theme of mysteriousness. Dickens opens the third chapter with the following statement: “A wonderful fact to reflect upon, that every human creature is constituted to be that profound secret and mystery to every other…” (Dickens 14). I think that by this, Dickens wants to show the reader that we as humans have secrets. There is not one person who can fully know another. On page27, Mr. Lorry speaks with Lucie about her father and he reveals to Lucie that her father is indeed alive. Lucie’s mother had lied to her about the fate of her father in order to protect her. On page 15 it says, “The messenger rode back at an easy trot, stopping pretty often at ale-house by the way to drink, but evincing a tendency to keep his own counsel, and to keep his hat cocked over his eyes.” It seems as if the messenger did not want anyone to know his true identity. He was mysterious, laying in the shadows, and staying away from those who might recognize him. Both of these examples exhibit that fact that humans are mysterious creatures, whether it be for safety purposes, or to avoid recognition. I think that Dickens places these situations in the novel so that we might be skeptical of everyone. As we read, we need to question the validity of what the characters say to one another.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with Sara when she says that darkness and light are very symbolic in the novel. I would build on that idea and say that Dickens is using the weather as a way of foreshadowing. For example, the dark symbolizes the war to come and all the bad things, then the light symbolizes the good that will come after the war or maybe that things will at least get better. The reason I think this is because on page 19 it says "...the weary passenger started to the consciousness of daylight, and found that the shadows of the night were gone." I interpret this as meaning the troubles of yesterday are gone. Dickens jumps from the setting being groggy in the middle of chapter three to the beautiful next day at the end of chapter three. From the way Dickens used weather as a means of foreshadowing I am predicting unfortunate events will occur followed by some type of resolution.
ReplyDeleteMr. Lorry is constantly saying how him taking Miss. Manette to see her father is strictly business. I think it is personal because this business of his has nothing to do with banking. If he didn't care, then he wouldn't be trying to help an orphan find her father. I feel like Mr. Lorry is trying to hide something and that he is more than a banker for the Manette family. I don't think that it is possible for any human being to have a close relationship, whether business or personal, with a person for 20 years and not know them well and care about them. It is showed that Mr. Lorry cares about the Manette family when Miss Manette says " I was left an orphan , through my mother's surviving my father only two years, it was you who brought me to England" and Mr. Lorry responds with " Miss Manette it was I." (Dickens 26) If he wasn't personal he wouldn't have brought her to England. No matter how much Mr. Lorry tries to make the situation just business, it is very much personal.
ReplyDeleteIn book 1 Chapter 1, the last paragraph on page two says that England was a dangerous, dark place because of burglaries and murders and this is proven to be true. It is proven when Mr. Lorry is in the Mail coach. When Mr. Lorry I outside talking to the messenger, all of the other passengers are so worried that he might be a robber, that they hide their valuables. This statement goes to show that England is not a happy place and that all the citizens are paranoid and do not trust anyone. In that same chapter the night is described as “a steaming mist in all the hollows, and it had roamed in its forlornness up the hill, like an evil spirit…”. This passage explains more about how dark, gloomy England felt along with a touch of evil in the air. Finally, in chapter three Charles Dickens keep talking about ghosts and buried people. These people can represent all the people of England and what will become of them in the end.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the first book, and possibly through the end of the novel, doubling is a huge motif. The theme begins in the very first sentence of the book with, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..." (Dickens 5). Dickens could be contradicting the poor and the rich, England and France, or any character with another. There are so many possibilities as to what the first paragraph of the novel means. "How was this?-Was it you?" (Dicken 47). This is another example of doubling. Mr. Manette actually thinks Lucie is his wife, opposed to his daughter, at first. I mean, it has been 18 years, and you may be a little crazy in the head, but to mistake your daughter for you wife is completely dumb. Mr. Manette should have known that after 18 years, your wife would have aged. But, maybe he was reminiscing about his wife, and the fact that he did not know about his daughter, other than the fact that he knew he wife was pregnant, could have also played a role in his stupidity. 18 sure did a lot to his mind. Dickens, whether its with countries, social classes, of people, kept a constant doubling motif throughout the first book. This doubling up factor may play a role later on in the book with mistaken identity and quite possibly imprisonment.
ReplyDeleteI agree with India. Throughout Mr. Lorry and Lucie's conversation, he repeats the word business over and over. He is trying to convince himself that he isn't personally involved with this situation. There has to be a reason why he does this or business wouldn't be coming up so much. He also tries to hide that he brought Lucie to England as a two year old. Mr. Lorry tells the story of her father by saying he was a customer. This is Mr. Lorry trying to convince himself it was business rather than personal. Mr. Lorry tries to pretend he has no feelings during their conversation. He says, "I had no feelings, and that all relations with my fellow-creatures are mere business relations." Mr. Lorry knows the situation is personal, but he seems scared to have feelings for this family.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anna on the fact that the spilled wine represents spilled blood in chapter five. However I had a question, rather than a statement, about it: Since the spilled wine is a foreshadow of spilled blood, then why does Dicken's make everyone happy and joyful in this part of the book? It makes me personally feel like this is implying that later on in the book, when the blood is shed, the people will be happy and joyous. It seems like if he wanted to foreshadow the people worrying about the spilled blood to come, then at the current point in time, Dicken's would have set the current tone to make the people seemed worried, or even have talked about the Defarge couple being sad because they lost a casket of wine. It says towards the beginning of chapter five, "A shrill sound of laughter and of amused voices- voices of men, women, and children- resounded in the street while this wine game lasted." This is how happy and cheerful Dickens set the tone of the wine being spilled. He also talked about how the men, women, children, peasants, and everyone else came together to collect the wine. He says, "There was a special companionship in it, an observable inclination on the part of every one to join some other one, which led, especially among the luckier or lighter-hearted, to frolicsome embraces, drinking of healths, shaking of hands, and even joining of hands and dancing, a dozen together." This brings about another question. When the blood is spilled, will the people come together? My guess is that Dickens, being the talented author that he is, put these descriptions in for a reason. I think that he manipulated every single detail to work out just perfectly. However, there is only one way to find out: to finish reading the book.
ReplyDeleteIn Chapter 5 on pages 32-33 the passage about hunger really stood out to me. A brief part of the passage states “Hunger. It was prevalent everywhere. Hunger was pushed out of the tall houses, in the wretched clothing that hung upon poles and lines; Hunger was patched into them with straw and rag and wood and paper; Hunger was repeated in every fragment of the small modicum of firewood that the man sawed off;…” I feel that the word hunger represents the peasants. Charles Dickson used personification with the word hunger to describe what the peasants feel and go through. Things are getting hard in England and its affecting the peasants. They are hungry, homeless, and have clothes that are made of rags. I feel that the passage is foreshadowing the stand that the peasants are going to take. The peasants are getting tired of being mistreated. No one likes being mistreated, it is human nature.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Grace, Hallie Belle, and Katy because Mr. Lorry has been more of a father to Lucie. The reason I think that Mr. Lorry is more of a father to her is because she remembers him from when she was two and he brought her to England. The ways I agree with Katy as well are if I were Lucie I wouldn’t trust a man that I have never met or even talked to in my life. I would just fell scared because all I know is that he has been in jail for 17 years, I wouldn’t know what to think if he was a bad person or a good one.
ReplyDeleteMr. Defarge continues to keep Dr. Manette confined in a small, dark room away from the real world. A question that emerges from this situation is why. Is it because Dr. Manette truly cannot handle freedom and "would be frightened- rave-tear himself to pieces..if his door was left open" or is it because Mr. Defarge craves power over the doctor? (Dickens 40) I believe that it is the second reason. After Mr. Defarge "bent down on one knee to the child of his old master, and put her hand to his lips," he has a complete mood change (Dickens 39). He goes from being nice and sociable to "a secret, angry, dangerous man" (Dickens 39). This personality change shows that Mr. Defarge obviously has a deeper reasoning of the confinement of Dr. Manette, other than that he is solely an old, unstable man. Dr. Manette was once Mr. Defarge's master, and had complete control over him. Now their roles have been reversed and Mr. Defarge has the opportunity to control Dr. Manette. Mr. Defarge wants to make it clear that he has the power. In doing this, he refuses to allow Dr. Manette any freedom or the ability to ease his way back into society like a sensible, nice man would do. Instead, he isolates Dr. Manette away from the world. This is not only unfair to Dr. Manette, who has been released from prison and now deserves to live his life, but also it's selfish of Mr. Defarge. Mr. Defarge is not keeping Dr. Manette safe, rather he is showing just how much of a self-absorbed, power-stricken man he truly is.
ReplyDeleteAs Mary Kate said, there are many references to death in book one. Even moments that seem hopeful have a grim tone to them. For example as Mr. Manette is leaving the tower to start a better life, Madame Defarge was "knitting, and saw nothing" (52). Knitting, a reference of the occupation of the group who attended public executions, makes one think that Mr. Manette's new life will not be as bright and promising as Lucie had planned. Answering Rachel's question, I think that the initial joy expressed in the grim situations foreshadows the beginning of the war being misinterpreted by the people. They will either be fooled into thinking that war will be the solution to their problems and lead to a healthier, happier life or treat the war as a sadistic entertainment source. Either way, I believe that the people will realize the danger of their situation as they did when the wine, their source of pleasure and hope, ran out.
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ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with Chandler. Mr. Lorry was no more of a father than Mr. Manette was. He took her to England, so what. Yes she remembers Mr. Lorry but how does that make him better than Mr. Manette? We must not judge before we know the facts because for all we know, Mr. Manette could have been saving her life by going to jail. It could have been the best thing for Lucie. She has had no true parent figure in her seventeen years of living and that may or may not be anyones fault. I have always been told you must trust yourself before you can trust anyone else. If Lucie does not trust her instincts about her father, her blood related family, then of course she cannot trust Mr. Manette. I say she did the right thing. Just think, if you had the opportunity, would you take it? Do you think that Lucie made the right choice going to see her father, or would you refuse?
ReplyDeleteAn aspect of this book that has both confused and intrigued me, is the "digging" going on. I believe that digging is a metaphor for finding the truth and possibly resurrection. In chapter 3, Mr. Lorry "was on his way to dog some one out of a grave(Dickens 17)." This someone is Dr.Manette, and he has been metaphorically buried for eighteen years. Being released from prison is like a resurrection and a new start in life. Dr. Manette is being "recalled to life" and Lucie is digging for the truth about her father, that she believed to be dead(Dickens 17). Digging may also be foreshadowing to the upcoming deaths and graves that will be dug. Dickens also wants readers to dig beneath the surface and analyze what they are reading.
ReplyDeleteI think that the first paragraph is the most important part of the book because of the contrasting statements. The overall theme I got from the paragraph it that there is chaos and confusion in this time period. I believe that we as people can change how our time period or generation turns out. We can make it a peaceful time period or the worst of times. What decides this is how we react to certain things during our time period. In the first chapter, Dickens describes how the people are paranoid because of all of the robbers in the town. My first assumption was that this is the “worst of times” or “the age of darkness”. The robbers of Dover were stealing and killing innocent people for no apparent reason. The town has erupted into chaos and the people do not trust one another. In chapter five when the wine is flowing throughout the street Dickens is foreshadowing the bloodshed that is going to happen later in the book. As of right now, we have seen the dark side but hopefully there will be a golden age or a period of peace.
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 5 when they were talking about the spilt wine, I instantly thought it was a metaphor for blood, also because we know that the book is about the French Revolution, having a red liquid that has been used as an example for blood before (Jesus) was kind of ominous. The poor flocking to it and fighting over every last drop. They were stained by both the wine and the blood- representing the horrors they will commit. The fact that the Defarge's just stood by and watched and criticized these un-civilized people, shows that they are in the middle class and are "better" than the common people. The hunger-crazed commoners attack the wine like they probably will attack more people. The Defarge's comment on how savage the commoners are while they have imprisoned a man upstairs for no good reason for who knows how long! The commoners are so crazed one writes the word "blood" on a wall. I feel like that will be a problem soon.
ReplyDeleteI agree with India. I think that Mr. Lorry is trying to hide something. He wants to appear as if he is all business but I think that there is more to the story. He clearly cares about her because when she fell ill from the news that Mr. Lorry was telling her he didn't want to move. On page 29 it says, "...therefore he called out loudly for assistance without moving." he clearly cared for her and wanted her to be okay, despite him saying that he is strictly about business.
ReplyDeleteI agree with India. I think that Mr. Lorry is trying to hide something. He wants to appear as if he is all business but I think that there is more to the story. He clearly cares about her because when she fell ill from the news that Mr. Lorry was telling her he didn't want to move. On page 29 it says, "...therefore he called out loudly for assistance without moving." he clearly cared for her and wanted her to be okay, despite him saying that he is strictly about business.
ReplyDeleteAlong with Jalesa's comment in, A Tale of Two Cities, book one, chapter five, I also noticed that there is a mention of “Hunger” many times. I questioned why he was so persistent on the word hunger. Dickens uses this word to try and visualize how expensive the food in Paris was and how, because of this, peasants are starving. In a single paragraph he uses Hunger eight times with emphasis on Hunger being capitalized. It states, “Hunger. It was prevalent everywhere. Hunger was pushed out of the tall houses, in the wretched clothing that hung upon poles and lines; Hunger was patched into them with straw and rag and wood and paper; Hunger was repeated in every fragment of the small modicum of firewood that the man sawed off…etc” (Dickens, 32). The capitalized, H, seems to make hunger a person, trudging the streets of Paris and becoming contagious along with unwanted. In 1775, France was about to enter the French Revolution, so this paragraph is Dickens’s way of foreshadowing what is to come. Hunger is crawling through the clothes implying that no matter what a peasant wears; Hunger will always be with them. Since so many peasants are impoverished, they are dying of Hunger, causing the government to lose more and more of its reign over the people. Hunger is lurking in the streets and in the incident of the spilt wine as Anna stated, people become savage to drink. This is a huge foreshadowing of the future blood in the streets because of people craving power and freedom. These examples tie into each other as a setting up for the Storming of the Bastille as, like Jalesa said, the peasants taking a stand. Dickens uses Hunger and other examples to foreshadow what are to come, giving the book a mysterious theme along with haunted such throughout the novel.
ReplyDeleteWhen Dickens states in the opening lines of the novel, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times", it seems to foreshadow what will happen in the rest of the book, and that is already apparent in Book 1. An example of that line proving true, in the aspect of bad times, is the eerie scene where the wine has spilled in the street, and a man traces on a rock the word "blood." It continues talking about in the next paragraphs on page 32 about the cold, sickness, and ignorance of the people. Hunger seems to be everywhere among them and the descriptions of wretched clothing and scanty bread make the town of Saint Antoine in Paris seem like they're going through hard times. Also in the book, an unclear situation of a time when things could be either bad or good is the meeting of Lucy and her father. There is the side where you could agree with Grace and Hallie Belle, because since he has been in prison, the way he'll act in the future might not be good so things could get even worse for Lucy. Or like Katy has said, Lucy really wants a close relationship with him, and his reasoning for being in jail may not be his fault. He may actually a good guy. I guess in the next chapters of the book, we will find out if it will be a bad or good situation!
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS NOT LATE! I emailed you. (Mary Grace Arnold)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Chappel when she says that Mr. Defarge only keeps Dr. Manette in the wine shop tower because he is power hungry. But I also think that Dr. Manette cannot handle the freedom that being released from the tower will give him. I think, since Dr. Manette has been away from the real world for eighteen years, he will not know how to interact with the world and other people. Times and people have probably changed from before he was put in jail; society, government, and laws have probably changed also. So, when he is released he will not know any of the laws or any of the societal changes. Another challenge with Dr. Manette’s release is being reunited and getting to know his daughter, Lucie, given that he doesn’t know anything about her. Dr. Manette is probably not the same man that he was eighteen years ago. He has most likely changed physically and socially. “The faintness of the voice was pitiable and dreadful…Its deplorable peculiarity was, that it was the faintness of solitude and disuse.” (Dickens 42) One main challenge that Dr. Manette will have to overcome is his relationship, or lack of, with his daughter. Hopefully he will be open to starting over with Lucie and getting to know her. Also, another challenge is his interaction with other people whether they be old friends or new acquaintances. It is his choice on whether or not he wants to start over with his occupation as a shoemaker and being in society again. “…it was like a voice underground…wearied out by lonely wandering in a wilderness…” (Dickens 42) Had Dr. Manette forgotten how to interact and communicate with people during the eighteen years he was isolated? Would he ever be the same as he was before he was imprisoned? Would he want to form a relationship with Lucie? I believe that throughout the rest of the novel, Dr. Manette will want to form a relationship with Lucie and they will grow closer all through the novel.
On page 39, the dialogue between Mr. Lorry and Monsieur Defarge, described a poor man who stayed in prison for twenty years. He was frightened of sunlight , even though he was free later, he was still afraid. Since Mr. Manette had been imprisoned for such long time, he became unstable. Just like Monsieur Defarge said that, if he was not locked up, he would be rave, tear himself to pieces, even die. That shows us how dark the world can be. By being fall sleep in prison, Mr. Manette lose all hope in life, became dim. The nobles they control everything, just like Monsieur Defarge said “ Long live the Devil.” (page 39) They are the law, you can see how cruel way they treat him, how they treat the base class people.
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